Sure, Impressing a dragon and becoming one of the dragonriders of Pern might seem like the ultimate wish fulfillment. I mean, a dragon! A dragon that can take you anywhere and anywhen! A dragon that will share your every thought and always, always love you, ensuring that you will never be alone again.
Can you imagine losing something like this, though?
You could well go insane… as Anne McCaffrey describes in Dragonquest.
Buckle up, everyone. This might not be an entirely pleasant post.
In our last reread post, the dragonriders had just discovered that some disgusting insect thingies—grubs—seemed to be eating their ancient enemy, Thread. On this mildly disgusting and appalling note, F’nor slowly flies back to the Southern Weyr to have dinner with Brekke, musing on the way about how the Oldtimers have a different culture than modern dragonriders, and how the newly discovered—or rediscovered—fire-lizards might help dampen the growing resentment between dragonriders and non-dragonriders, in what feels like the thousandth repetition of that theme. (It isn’t, but it feels that way.) Brekke tells F’nor she feels disoriented, and that a violent upheaval is coming. For some reason, F’nor takes this as a romantic moment, and kisses her, which leads him to the realization that she’s a virgin. I have Questions, but before they can be answered, Brekke responds that she can’t do a mating flight, since that will force her to have sex with the rider of whatever dragon has sex with her dragon; she just can’t, because she’s not uninhibited or wanton and she’s just not the sort of person who can have casual sex the way dragonriders are supposed to. It all leads to this:
He wanted to be gentle but, unaccountably, Brekke fought him. She pleaded with him, crying out wildly that they’d rouse the sleeping Wirenth. He wasn’t gentle but he was thorough, and in the end Brekke astounded him with a surrender as passionate as if her dragon had been involved.
Unaccountably? F’nor, she’s just told you she’s not comfortable with casual sex, thus her terror about mating flights, and you’re surprised that she’s not entirely up for this? And you continue even while she’s fighting you?
Uh-huh.
Somewhat more helpfully, F’nor comes up with a solution to the dragon-enforced non-consensual sex: Let Wirenth be flown by a brown dragon—his own Canth.
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Dragonquest
Kylara sees F’nor and Brekke together and is infuriated.
This deeply unpleasant stuff—made no less unpleasant by its presentation as romantic—is interrupted by the considerably more romantic wedding at Telgar Hold. (Not that we’re given details, but since the new bride seems happy and isn’t getting forced into the marriage or sex, I’m calling that a rare win for romance in this book.) And that’s Telgar Hold, not Weyr. R’mart of Telgar Weyr, having conveniently absented himself earlier in this book, shows absolutely no sign of wanting to return to it. Probably a wise move.
Masterharper Robinton, though, never one to miss a chance at wine, does head to the wedding with a few journeymen, including Sebell. The wedding is filled with various important notables of Pern, narrative observations on the importance of having many sons if you are a man, Robinton ducking out of singing certain songs, F’lar and Lessa arriving with fire-lizard eggs, Kylara and Meron arriving with actual fire-lizards, and Kylara announcing that fire-lizards can eat Thread. This last is a particular plus, since it shows that the fire-lizards aren’t just pets, but can be useful, and also because T’kul of the High Reaches has apparently decided that fighting Thread is just Too Much and he’ll just nap, thanks.
Oh, and there’s also the unveiling of Fandarel’s distance communicator. Before anyone can ooh and ahh too much over this, the machine announces another out-of-pattern Threadfall.
You would think that the dragonriders would respond to this by heading out and fighting Thread, since that’s, at least in theory, their job. But no: T’ron, Fort Weyr’s leader, responds to this by attacking F’lar and starting a duel. F’lar wins, calls on everyone to support Benden, and exiles everyone and anyone refusing to accept his leadership to the Southern Weyr—without, I must note, asking the opinion of anyone at the Southern Weyr about this—and then he heads off to fight Thread as everyone else scrambles to move possessions and dragons between Weyrs. (The holders at Southern Hold, meanwhile, apparently decide to just sit it out.) The next day, still wounded, he holds one of his general meetings, first with the other Weyrleaders (except, again, for R’mart, still firmly avoiding taking part in this book) and then with the other Lord Holders and Craftmasters of Pern.
Which seems to be an excellent time for a few more quick definitions:
Green: An unlucky color to wear on Pern. Which may be related to some general attitudes and beliefs about all of those gay green riders, or may not.
Air: Something everyone, including F’lar, assumes must exist on the Red Star.
Journeymen: Men working for a craft hold who are no longer apprentices, but not quite masters of the craft—yet. Think people with a college or master’s degree, as opposed to a doctorate. In later books, they will be joined by Journeywomen, but we are still in “yes, yes, you do have to sleep with whoever your dragon wants you to sleep with” territory here at the moment.
Sebell: A minor journeyman harper conducting his first public performance, who has some trouble with his pants. Don’t worry, Sebell. Something tells me this questionable start is not a foreshadowing of your future career.
Grubs: Still really gross insect thingies, whose ability to eat Thread doesn’t make them any less gross, at least according to the people of Pern. (Insect lovers may wish to skip this book.)
Post-meeting, F’lar sneaks off to those formerly hidden rooms for a Grub Test, telling F’nor that he wants to protect Pern with the grubs so that the dragonriders can head to the Red Star to wipe out Thread. F’nor, surprisingly enough, doesn’t respond by asking why F’lar doesn’t send one group to the Red Star to wipe out Thread while the rest stay back on defense; I say “surprisingly enough” given his distaste for the grubs. (Did I mention that insect lovers may wish to skip this book?)
Over at High Reaches, Brekke is trying to deal with the huge mess left by the unexpected move, which includes cleaning the lake water to get it potable again, when Wirenth, her dragon, rises to mate. The golden dragon flies up into the clouds, followed by bronze dragons, when she sees another glowing dragon below her —Kylara’s Prideth. The two battle, despite the desperate efforts of the other queens and Canth to separate them, and vanish between.
In the aftermath, a green dragon rider, S’goral, returns with the unconscious Kylara, explaining that she had been sleeping with Meron during the mating flight—an activity that triggered the tragic queen battle.
…and I think we’ll stop here.
It’s an action-packed section, to put it mildly—what with sex! duels! dueling dragons!—and a segment that raises multiple questions, like, how much does Pern really need telegraph machines now that they’ve (re)discovered fire-lizards, who are perfectly capable of delivering messages instantaneously? (The answer to this, as it turns out, is not quite as much as the later books need people who are trained in how to make telegraph machines… not an entirely satisfying answer for this novel.) Or when, exactly, did old C’gan turn from the Benden Weyr Harper to the Benden Weyr weyrling and dueling teacher? Or why on Pern F’lar decides to let the disruptive Oldtimers have the most fertile land on the planet—without asking anyone’s opinion about this?
Or maybe ask Robinton what he means by this sudden “Of all men on Pern, harpers feared few” stuff? Hey, Robinton: In the last book you were telling us that harpers were regularly beaten.
Is that something they’re into?
Enquiring minds want to know.
But instead, I think we need to talk about Kylara.
Let’s review, shall we?
As Dragonquest reminds us, Kylara starts out as the high-ranking daughter of a Lord Holder. Four days before her wedding, she’s snatched away to Benden Weyr. She then spends her days in the Lower Caverns going from dragonrider to dragonrider, including F’lar. When her child is born, she has no idea who the father is. Later, she eagerly seizes the opportunity to be a queen rider.
Shortly after Impressing Prideth, Kylara is sent back in time to the Southern Continent with a number of people she barely knows, almost entirely for the purposes of forcing Prideth to be a brood mare (well, okay, brood dragon). F’lar sends only two full-grown bronze dragons with her, and since this is before F’nor gets his bright idea of letting Canth fly a gold dragon, this reduces Kylara’s choice of partners to two. We are later told that queen dragons need several bronzes in order to be happy. Only one other trained, adult rider, F’nor, joins them, and apparently, no other women.
The text also clarifies that spending time in the past—specifically, living at the same time as your past self—is exhausting, physically and mentally. When Kylara and the others return, they are in such terrible shape that they cannot even join the triumphant mass gatherings of dragons.
Sometime after this, she finds herself exiled to the Southern Continent again. She does, at least, hold the title of Weyrwoman—but as this book notes, that is not a title that automatically grants respect. F’lar, for instance, leaves women out of most of the crucial leadership meetings in this book, and nearly everyone keeps referring to poor Bedella of Telgar Weyr as not that bright. But should Bedella’s perceived lack of intelligence really shut the other women out of these discussions?
Kylara would argue—and does argue—no.
She’s ignored.
So. Kylara is taken from her home, passed around from dragonrider to dragonrider, helps to help create more dragons during a major crisis at great cost to her own life and mental health, is exiled for all practical purposes, forced to have sex with a man she despises whenever her dragon rises to mate, and occasionally outside of those times as well. And then, because she just happens to be having sex with a partner she has chosen just as Brekke’s dragon rises to mate, she loses her dragon.
Just ten days later, Lessa informs Masterfarmer Andelon that Kylara still lives, but “with no more mind or wit than a baby.” Something that I fiercely hope doesn’t mean “coma,” since nothing in the narrative suggests that the Healers on Pern know how to feed people in comas, or have the technology to create feeding tubes.
Google informs me that people can survive without water for about ten days. Twenty-one days without food.
After this, Kylara drops out of the narrative completely.
And I’m supposed to consider this character the villain?
Kylara’s not without her flaws—many and major. Her choice in men, for instance, is terrible—Lord Meron is cruel and a terrible Lord and landlord, something that can’t be completely blamed on grief, since he was awful in his very first appearance back in Dragonflight. Her arrogant, dismissive and frequently cruel attitude towards other dragonriders and Meron’s servants is appalling, and can hardly be excused by “My life sucks!” And sure, Kylara has enjoyed a comparatively privileged life compared to Lessa, especially since nearly every major trauma Kylara experienced—witnessing the brutal death of two women during Ramoth’s Hatching, having her mental and physical state scrambled by time travel—is something Lessa experienced as well.
But I would argue that Kylara’s resentment stems from very real mistreatment and abuse by her fellow dragonriders. Her seeming obsession with sex seems to be, at least in part, a coping mechanism. Because, really, what options does she have, after she’s taken to Benden Weyr? She can either remain in the Lower Caverns, jumping from the bed of one dragonrider to the next, or working as a cook and a cleaner, or she can become a queen rider. But once a queen rider, she’s trapped, unable to leave the Weyr.
To her credit, McCaffrey would later examine this issue of dragonriders, men and women, bound to their Weyrs, unable to pursue other interests. But not here, where Kylara is trapped by her bond with her queen dragon—a bond that she cannot break without severe risk to her mental health, as this section shows.
And one more note: Kylara is universally condemned for choosing to have sex while a mating flight is happening directly above her—something that supposedly sets Prideth off, which the dragonriders later term as dragon abuse, and others equate to murder. But how, exactly, was Kylara supposed to know that Brekke’s dragon was going to rise that day? Not to mention that another queen rider, Pilgra, notes that Prideth was already close to rising—that is, that Prideth might well have risen to mate even without the stimulus of Kylara having sex.
And not to mention that we are specifically told, many times, that the other female dragons—the green dragons—rise to mate all the time. To the point where it’s blamed for the high sex drives of everyone in the Weyrs. And yet, when this happens, do the rest of the green dragons and their male riders have to head elsewhere?
No, no they do not. This is just something that the golden dragons and their women riders must do.
Should Kylara have noticed her dragon’s condition? Sure, maybe. After all, Pilgra did. But the first part of the book went out of its way to note that dragonriders might not notice these signs—and that the signs might not be obvious in every case with every dragon. Prideth and Kylara had spent the day before moving from the Southern Weyr to the High Reaches, under stressful conditions—the same stresses that might well make those signs difficult to notice. That same part of the book stressed that the emotions of a dragon—especially a dragon about to mate—can affect the rider, and cause the rider to act uncontrollably.
Making it entirely possible that Kylara doesn’t have that much control over her sexual desires.
And making her as much a victim here as Brekke.
At the very least, it seems a rather extreme punishment just for having—and enjoying—sex.
Add in that this section also includes a scene where a woman who is upset that she’s about to be forced into sex thanks to her telepathic bond with her dragon is… forced into sex by someone trying to demonstrate that, hey, forced sex isn’t all that bad, not to mention lines like “The air was full of dragon wings now, the screams of frightened women counterpointing the curses of men,” and I’m left with a very uncomfortable, itching feeling, and not from the multiple insect descriptions.
As a teen, I read this without understanding many of the implications. But even then, I felt considerably sorrier for and angry about Kylara than, I think, the text wanted me to. I still do. That this all happens in what is otherwise one of the best sections of the novel—a section that finally stops all of the dithering and repetition, and confronts head-on the issues of culture shock and environmental responses that the earlier part of the novel tended to deal with only gingerly—doesn’t mitigate those feelings. That this all happens in the direct sequel to a novel that featured a woman questioning and fighting against the status quo instituted by men just makes it worse.
You go, Kylara. I’m so sorry that you lost your dragon, and your mind. If I could, I’d give them both back.
Mari Ness currently lives rather close to a certain large replica of Hogwarts, which allows her to sample butterbeer on occasion. Her short fiction has appeared in Clarkesworld, Lightspeed, Fireside, Apex, Daily Science Fiction, Nightmare, Shimmer and assorted other publications—including Tor.com. Her poetry novella, Through Immortal Shadows Singing, was released in 2017 by Papaveria Press. You can follow her on Twitter @mari_ness.
Just reading the summary makes me want to yeet the book across the room.
Kylara is an entitled, spoiled, self-centered, narcicisstic be-yotch who caused the death of her dragon. I will say this again, secretly, Kylara’s brother Lord Larad was glad she was taken away on search, even though it messed up his plans to marry her off to Brant of Igen, a matcch he arranged because, Kylara was starting to act up & out. He was newly married himself, & he had just had to deal with his elder half sister Thella, whose behavior, Kylara’s second to, & Thella was a psycho, and Lord Larad was glad Thella was gone, & now Kylara was Benden Weyr’s responsibility. When Southern Weyr became a Weyr in the present, Kylara, being Kylara, made Brekke & the other Junior Queen Riders do what she was supposed to be doing, so she could go do the wild,(and I mean that literally) thing with Lord Meron of Nabol Hold, because Kylara liked it rough & she used T’bor’s drinking & their arguments as the cause of her bruises. Kylara was at Nabol, supposedly getting fresh water, but she & Lord Meron were getting it on, Prideth saw that there was a mating flight going, on and her mating instinct fot going. Then Wirenth & Prideth got into the fight. You forget that two women lost their dragons. Brekke was inhibited because of where she was btought up, so didn’t know about the wherries & the trundlebugs as regards dragons
I’m pretty sure green is unlucky because it’s the color of vegetation, which is believed to attract thread. And you don’t want thread on your threads.
R’mart isn’t present because he’s fighting thread and his weyr is taking casualties, including himself.
@2, much of the early stuff with Larad and Thella is a much later retcon by McCaffrey. Starting with Dragonsdawn (in publication order) she started working very hard to fix many of the problems with Dragonflight and Dragonquest. But the first 2 books are very much of their time, and parts have not aged well. Still enjoyable reads, but getting more problematic as time goes on.
She tries to fix some in The White Dragon, but the idea of the “droit de seigneur” is still presented completely uncritically as acceptable.
That comment about her being forced to stay in the Weyr after failed Search (when Lessa was selected) and being passed around by dragonriders, was not exactly right. It has been pointed out that failed (surviving) candidates can and do go back home. The only ones who stay are the ones who like more free environment in the Weyrs, apparently Holds are extremely conservative and constrained. Kylara’s options were to go home and get married to unpleasant match or stay in the Weyr. Furthermore, don’t take away her own agency – her “being passed around” was entirely her decision trying to attach herself to men in power and them catching on and moving on. Furthermore her affair with Meron was partly due to her trying to troll main characters who were just shocked at her. Not at her affair per se, but her choice of partner since everyone apparently despised Lord Meron. She actually thinks about it, how she going to Meron to annoy and shock everyone.
Yikes, I forgot how totally awful F’nor and Brekke’s encounter was. Geez.
And I am feeling you on Kylara. She probably wasn’t a pleasant person by any means, but she didn’t deserve what she got. And I think it’s telling that the thing she is punished for isn’t really related to those flaws to start with.
How many people did the male heroes sleep with? Nobody seems to have a problem with it as long it is a man who does it.
F’nor wasn’t wrong about Kylara’s many bad points, but his conclusion that she needed a beating-UGH!! The Weyrs need some HR. That “no means yes” scene with Brekke is horrid, and ruins F’mor’s character for me. Can’t retcon that one.
I also can’t see Kylara as a victim here. As others have stated, nobody forced her to stay, she enjoyed having lots of sex with lots of different partners, and for all its downsides, being the rider of a queen dragon is probably the most powerful position on Pern. Given her desires and ambitions, staying in the Weyr is a logical choice.
As for her fate, my impression is that it’s her selfishness, carelessness, and irresponsibility that caused the death of the two queens. I can see the argument that McCaffery didn’t do a good consistent job of setting that up (clearly establishing what dragon riders ought to know), but I think that’s her intent.
As I recall, Sebell continues to have trouble with his pants in Dragonsinger.
If any one was passing Kylara around, it was Kylara, herself. Robinto, Sebell, & the other journeymen did not go to Lord Asgenar’s & Lady Famira’s wedding just for the wine. The music Robinton was having trouble conposing in the first chapter was for this wedding. They are Harpers & they do entertain at social functions. This may have been Sebell’s debut at a function such as this, but Sebell has, since the age of about 10 or 11 Turns been Robinton’s shadow, the son he would have had if Camo hadn’t been born developmentally delayed because his umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck. Sebell, as has most Harpers have learned to hear what is being said, & what is not being said. “What a harper hears, is for The Haroer’s ears”. Sebell will become The Masterharper, because Robinton must retire for health reasons
Kylara wasn’t abused, she liked it rough, & any bruise she received in the process of having sex with Lord Meron, she used her arguments with T’bor, & his drinking to excess, that she has everyone in the Weyr that it was T’bor who was beating her. She used the excuse that she was going to Nabol Hold to get clean water, but in actuality it was to “see” Lord Meron. Morals were very different among the three different Socio-Political entities on Pern, & obviously what was taught in the crafthall where Brekke was raised was very little, which she didn’t know about the wherries & the trundlebugs as regards humans or dragons
Given the time this book was written and the state of the industry then; I have to wonder how much of what is wrong here came from the author; and how much was imposed by the editor/publisher? We know she worked hard in later books to wedge in some repair work on these issues; so I am curious.
I don’t want to make any excuses for F’nor refusing to accede to Brekke’s protests, but I do wish you could have included the part where she tells him that she has loved him since the day she first saw him, when he brought her to the Weyr on Search, and how she never said anything because she felt foolish for not having known that browns didn’t fly queens…
What is not mentioned about Kylara & Lord Meron showing up at Telgar Hold with live fire lizards,stealing F’lat & Lessa’s thunder,bringing only fire lizard eggs as gifts for the bride & groom. Kylara was not invited, nor I suppose was Lord Meron. This was the wedding of Kylara’s half-sister, Lady Famira & Lord Asgenar, Lord Holder of Lemos Hold, & her brother, Lord Larad’s fosterbrother, but Kylara deliberately dressed to steal the brides thunder, dressing in red, which is the tradititional bridal dress color. Those two wanted to spoil the the wedding
The villains in McCaffrey’s books are usually 100% bad, and Kylara doesn’t seem intended as an exception. However, even with her POV, there are some things I wonder about.
Given what we’ve seen of men in the weyrs (F’lar and F’nor are both supposed to be more than usually considerate of their lovers, and neither one of them would recognize consent issues if a woman hit them with a two-by-four), it seems highly likely that a woman found on search would experience harassment or assault.
Dragonriders have also shown themselves to be clueless about what the consequences of sex outside of marriage can be for a woman in the holds. Both F’lar and F’nor are surprised that their love interests have had no previous sexual experience. They don’t seem to understand that a high ranking woman might not be able to just turn around and go back to her betrothed after being with another man.
Also, someone victims deal with the trauma of sexual assault by becoming promiscuous. By initiating what may happen in a relationship, they take control of it. By having multiple partners, they keep any one partner from having too much power over them. They’re also at greater risk of entering into abusive relationships.
Also, while Lessa went back to times she existed in, she was only in them for short periods (and still had traumatic effects). Kylara co-existed with herself for ten years. Of course, so did the other dragonriders. However, as was pointed out in the article, they had a support group of people they’d known and worked with for years. Kylara was on her own. Also, though it’s not clearly stated, the books imply the women who impress queens have the most powerful psychic abilities on the planet and that they are much more powerful than the men. Strong psychic abilities seem to compound the problems of coexisting with your past self because of that psychic awareness.
Being in Kylara’s head makes me a lot less sympathetic, and I realize we weren’t supposed to be sympathetic (McCaffrey’s villains = 100% bad). But, I can’t just write her off.
On the issue of Prideth and Wirenth’s deaths:
There haven’t been two adult queens at a weyr in modern times for generations. We already know there’s a great deal of misinformation about queens, like the belief that they don’t fly, that was pretty common. It’s more likely that safety precautions have to be taken when two queens live at the same weyr. Perhaps someone should have asked the Old Timers.
@15, I will say it again, if the Oldtimers during the 8th Pass followed the the same custom of one Queen in a Weyr, when they cane forward, there would have been only five Queens, Mardra’s, Merika’s , Bedella’s, Fanna’s, & Nadira’s, who were the Senior Queens of their Weyrs, but there weren’t five Queens, there were seventeen Queens, the five Senior Queens, & the twelve Junior Queens. Each Weyr had a Queen’s wing who fought thread under the higher wings with the flamethrowers, when the Weyr Leaders step down, say for health reasons, an open flight is called & alk bronzes who hadn’t had a chance to fly a Queen, get to try to fly the first Junior Queen who rises to mate
There was definitely a thread of preference for “traditional” monogamous, stereotypically virtuous women in McCaffrey’s books. Heroine Lessa is portrayed as pining for children while villain Kylara has figured out how to end or prevent pregnancy by staying between for a few extra seconds. Both Lessa and Brekke are monogamous with F’lar and F’nor while Kylara enjoys sex with multiple men. Heck, even Lessa’s dragon sticks with F’lar’s dragon. And if I recall correctly, Sallah in Dragonsdawn who sacrificed herself for the colony was a monogamous mother with 4-6 children while Avril Bitra her rival who she defeats pursues sex with multiple men.
@16, sorry, I meant that the modern dragonriders had only had one adult queen at a time for at least a generation, probably more. You’d think they’d have asked an Old Timer about how to handle having more than one queen at a weyr, but many of the problems they have in this book seem to be because of a lack of communication between the groups until things are already out of hand.
The Old Timers likely had some kind of techniques for heading off the problem Brekke and Kylara had before it turned into a disaster. But, the modern riders didn’t ask, and the Old Timers didn’t realize they needed to be told.
The holders at Southern Hold, meanwhile, apparently decide to just sit it out
Nobody asks them if they’d like to move at all. Yeah, we’ll just shunt the people who’ve been kidnapping girls to be servants/slaves over on to you; deal with it peasants. Toric is another Designated Villain who has much better reasons for his attitude than the narrative cares to notice.
@3: I think it’s specifically stated somewhere in one of the books that green’s unlucky because green growing things around a Hold attract Thread. Though since it falls out of the sky with no apparent volition or steering I think that has to be superstition, however much the author swore there was no superstition on Pern.
@5: her “being passed around” was entirely her decision trying to attach herself to men in power and them catching on and moving on.
Either that or she just likes variety in men. The protagonists use a hot Harper to distract her at one point, so she obviously isn’t into sex purely for social advancement. And she seems to think getting hit is a sign of passion rather than abuse, so I read her as a kinkster in a world that’s forgotten the concept of safe sane and consensual.
A lot of Kylara’s personality seems to be classic opera diva: dramatic, craves attention, sexually insatiable etc; she even has her faithful dresser Rannelly.
@15: yeah, you’d think someone would have the job of co-ordinating queen mating flights both inside and between Weyrs, but it makes sense that Benden’s forgotten about that since there’s only been one queen on the planet for who knows how long, and it never occurred to the Oldtimers that anyone would need telling about basic dragon safety precautions (plus all the Lessa-and-Mardra-being-friendly stuff from the first book got forgotten and we get F’lar’s delightful list of bitch, shrew, cow, dumbass etc).
It’s interesting that Pilgra checks in with Brekke just before she takes her queen away to avoid a fight: are you alright, don’t worry it’ll be fine; it hints that Oldtimers might be better at mutual queenrider support than Our Protagonists are….
Gosh Mary List I really hope you are a male because this is a notable lack of empathy.
Dont forget Kylara also used to go back and watch herself growing up. If she got the same sort of premonitions as Lessa … well, that’s enough to mess up anyone!
#15 That’s a good point about the antagonists. They tend to be one dimensional. Fax has zero redeeming qualities. Monolly’s parents are absolutely horrid. Mardra just turns on Lessa, with no explanation other than F’lar assuming jealousy. There could have been an interesting subplot using that souring of their relationship , especially to be less one-sided in the depiction of the political/social conflicts between the Oldtimers and the present day Pernese. I think Torric is the only villain with any semblance of nuance, and he’s a cardboard cutout compared to a character like a Theon Greyjoy or a Tywin Lannister.
The entitled, self-centered, promiscuous, ruthless (or Ruth-ed) men of Pern seldom get vilified for it, narratively or in-world. Except when they’re Lord Holders. As far as I recall, most of the adult male villains in this series are Lord Holders. Others, notably a number of dragonriders, get a pass.
@17: Correct. Avril Bitra was promiscuous and childless (Bitra Hold was founded by dissidents who “held a different view of her actions and place in the history of Pern,” as the Wiki puts it) and Sallah Telgar was a monogamously married mother of four. Sallah’s relationship even had a rapey start, as Pern “romances” often do, though in a rare case of a female initiator she dosed her crush with aphrodisiac and they married after she got pregnant; he doted more on their children than on her before she heroically died and he realized how much he loved her.
@20, I am female. Please tell me how to have any empathy towards a woman who deliberately goes ot of her way to ignore the traditional duties of the Weyrwoman & puts them all on her Junior Queen Riders, especially Brekke. Tell me if this is not the behavior of a spoiled, entitled, self-centered, narcisisstic be-yotch, when Southern Weyr became a Weyr during the 9th Pass, acting as the Hospital for injured riders, what does she do, she send to her brother, Lord Larad asking him to send het nurse (read that as faithful retainer), because she is a Telgar of the Blood, & should be treated as such. There is an old sentimental Victorian ballad titled “She’s More To Be Pitied Than Censured”, but in Kylara’s caes it’s “She’s More To Be Censured Than Pitied”.
So how did Kylara end up as a queen rider ITFP? Both F’lar and Lessa thought she was the best candidate for Ramoth’s first queen egg. The fact that she was strong willed and not sexually inhibited were seen as good traits for a queen rider. But I can’t see them as being blind to all her bad traits. I suspect they fell into that trap of assuming the position of Weyrwoman, along with her bond with Prideth, would transform her into a more responsible person. But giving a selfish, mean, spoiled brat a position of power is much more likely to result in a selfish, mean, spoiled brat who is able to inflict more harm. There’s nothing in the story that indicated that anymore really tried to seriously mentor her (Lessa’s instructions over the eggs aren’t detailed) or even try some behavior modification techniques.
Regarding comparing the craft rank system to academia, in the sciences the grad students are the apprentices, post-docs the journeymen, and masters the tenured faculty.
@24: What even are “the traditional duties of a Weyrwoman”? Going by Lessa in Dragonflight they’re “do flyovers being impressive and inspiring”, “stop your queen eating before the mating flight” and “rubberstamp Manora’s decisions”. It’s not the Weyrwomen who manage the Weyr, it’s the headwomen.
And for some reason Southern Weyr doesn’t have a headwoman. We’re never told why that job got dumped on Brekke instead of, say, one of Manora’s seconds-in-command. Could none of them stomach the thought of dealing with Kylara? Was Brekke one of those annoying people who like to martyr themselves and insist that no, no, they’re fine, they can cope? Were they still trying to find someone capable who was willing to move to the Southern Continent? We never find out because the author was dead set on setting up the opposition between perfect dutiful Brekke who takes everything on herself and evil selfish Kylara daring to go out and enjoy herself.
And why shouldn’t she? She wasn’t chosen for having managerial skills or a sense of duty; she was chosen because a bronze rider thought she was hot, and she was the only candidate for Prideth’s egg because F’lar and Lessa thought her sleeping her way around all the bronze riders was the ideal qualification. It’s on them. Benden Weyr got what it deserved. Cry me a river.
(Not to mention that she actually, genuinely does do something heroic and inspiring – she kicks High Reaches Weyr into action when she finds out they’ve been allowing Thread to fall uncontrolled, gets them up in the air and fighting and flies out with them.
(And the response of the protagonists is eyerolling about how she’s bragging herself up over it. Which she is, but hell, at least give the lady a pat on the back for doing the right thing.)
Why do you have to compare the craft rank system to anything to understand it? It still exists, at least here in Germany.
I never liked the explanation for the origin of the grubs in Dragonsdawn, but I’ll save any critiques for a re-read of that book. The “I’d rather be grateful to dragons'” line is understandable, because everyone on Pern is hearing teaching ballads about dragons protecting Pern from infancy. It does set up some awesome snark from N’ton later in the book.
I’m down with grubs, as someone who has earned a living experimenting with bugs.
I will preface this by saying that the whole point of a search was to discover young women & men with high empathy ratings & innate telepathic abilities. Yes, possibly, a dragonrider of the bronze variety may have chosen some of the young women in the Search for a Weyrwoman for Nemorth’s last Queen egg, on looks alone, yet I wonder if, going by my theory that Kylara wasn’t happily awaiting her marriage to this Brant of Igen guy, & inveigled the bronze rider who came to Telgar Hold to take het to Benden. You have to remember that, prior to the 9th Pass, Dragonriders & Harpers had fallen out of favor, mostly thanks to Fax, so when it came to Searches, beggars couldn’t be choosers. As for how the Hatching went down, many of the Candidates, male & female had heard stories about what supposedly went down in the Weyr, including human sacrifices & cannibalism. Secondly, it was the Oldtimers, after the exile, who were stealing women, with the help of Lord Meron, and anything else they wanted. It only stopped when Lord Meron died, his successor, his Great Nephew Deckter was name, with the help of Master Robinton’s reverse psychology
F’lar’s opinion about Searching for female candidates is that his fellow bronze riders are only interested in looks and he’s the only one also looking for character; he’s kind of an arsehole but I don’t see any evidence that he’s wrong. Especially once we get to the Masterharper of Pern prequel and find out that Jora was the only candidate for Nemorth’s egg in spite of having acrophobia/vertigo. And why? Because she was getting it on with the then Weyrleader. Makes it pretty obvious that whatever the narrative likes to say about Search criteria the only criterion that matters to the average bronze rider is “I want to hit that with dragon-mating-enhanced horniness”.
Also, Master Robinton’s “reverse psychology”? Master Robinton’s willingness to torture a dying man you mean.
“Torturing”a perverse dying old man whose main agenda was to flout F’lar & Benden at every turn, by having dealings with the Oldtimers, bartering fire lizard eggs for goods he had smuggled to Southern Weyr. A pervers dying old man who loved to play the “bait & switch” game. He lured different craftmasters to his Gathers with promises of fire lizard eggs, oh they got them all right, but they were either not viable, or they were green fire lizard eggs, which was awash in them. He also played the “bait & switch” game with his heirs to the point they didn’t wish to be Lord Holder of Nabol. It wad the Nabolese that were wishing for Deckter, who was a decent sort of person who could put Nabol Hold back on the right track
And oh BTW, Lord Meron of Nabol was dying of what we here on 21st Century Terra would refer to as either an STD or an STI, or if we go back to when the first two books in the trilogy were written, a VD
Yes, refusing painkillers to a dying man to get him to do what you want is still torture, however much you dislike him, however unpleasant he was and whether or not it was an STI he was dying of. (Are you seriously using that as an excuse? Good god woman.)
And it was pure sadism, since all the witnesses there had to do was agree to lie and say Meron named Deckter before he died. But apparently it’s more important on Pern to avoid lying than to avoid torturing a helpless person. Meron’s very far from being the only nasty piece of work in that room.
“or they were green fire lizard eggs”
I could never figure out why that was supposed to be a problem. They’re still fire lizards. Why are green ones all of a sudden not special enough?
@33 The issue with eggs from green fire lizard nests is that they have a poor hatch rate, and IIRC those that do hatch are more likely to be greens, which are less intelligent. Fire lizards remind me of social insects in that they appear to have genetic castes, although their caste functions aren’t as clearly differentiated like worker, drone, and queen bees are, for example.
“….since all the witnesses there had to do was agree to lie and say Meron named Deckter before he died. But apparently it’s more important on Pern to avoid lying than to avoid torturing a helpless person.”
It may well be exactly that way- that Harpers have a reputation for being unbiased and 100% honest as arbiters to a succession dispute. That would give them the choice between two evils: do you risk your reputation for the likes of Lord Meron if it comes out that you lied about who he chose (there could be witnesses who were not down with the choice of Deckter, but would accept it if they heard Meron say it, because those are the rules), or do you knowingly refuse to relieve his pain to resolve the dispute without a lie? Granted this is reading between the lines, but Pernese society seems less accepting of those sorts of lies to me. They place a lot of weight on rank and insult and personal honor in ways that are odd to a 21st (or 20th) Century American, and such differences can be part of the appeal of world building.
Robinton learn the fine art of arbitration early. I “Masterharper”, he & the future Lord Holder of Fort Hold, Groghr are journeying to Tillek Hold, Robinton to be Harper there, & Groghe to be fostered for a time. As they made their way there, there were two Holds, one belonging to Fort, the other a different Major Hold. There was an old wall in need of major repairs, and the two Holders were arguing over who should be doing the repairing. Robinton reminded them there were two sides of a wall. In other words, stop your complaining, and just rebuild your side of the wall.
@35: It’s going to risk their reputation as much or more if it comes out they tortured a dying Lord to get him to name the heir they wanted. Especially if Pern retained some equivalent to the Hippocratic law, since the Masterhealer was complicit.
And later in the series we get an example of what happens when a Lord dies without a named heir (all the other Lords get together and pick one from the suitable relatives) so it was even less necessary than it seemed at the time.
If you are referring to Lord Oterel, in “All the Weyrs”, there were three possible heirs, & there were three different party blocs who were trying to get their possible heir chosen. The eldest son, who was a gamester & lay-about, who was into the Lord Holder of Bitra fof beaucoup marks. (FYI, gaming is popular on Pern, but if you thought of yourself as a highroller, you did your gaming at Bitra, the problem is, Bitrans are not above cheating someone who came to Bitra for a game, but Bitrans on the whole, do not play games with fellow Bitrans that lend themselves to cheating. The only instance of a Bitran cheating another Bitran, was Chalkin cheating his Uncle Vergerin out of the holdership, in “Dragonseye”). The second son, was a loser type. The third son, while it appeared that he was disinherited, he at least did things that improved Tillek Hold. The major beef of those who favored the eldest son was that the third son used materials developed from innovations learned from AIVAS’s data banks. It eventually came down to the eldest & youngest son, but in the end the successor was the one who actually did some good for the Hold.
Exactly. There’s already an accepted way to choose heirs so the torture was completely unnecessary.
Lord Meron was being perverse, but two can play that game, Robinton had to be twice as perverse as Lord Meron, to prevent all out bloodshed, because there are times when a Holdership is in contention, blood duels start happening. One of the reasons Lessa abidicated her right to be Lady Holder of Ruatha, & had her son fostered at the Weyr was so that Jaxom would continue to be the only uncontended heir to Ruatha.
“Exactly. There’s already an accepted way to choose heirs so the torture was completely unnecessary.”
Well, if you judge the second book written by stuff in the eleventh…
I say it comes down to all actions have consequences. Kylara’s actions had consequences & Lord Meron’s actions had consequences, very unpleasant consequences for even Kylara.
@41 You could retconn the story to say that those new succession rules for Holds were adopted precisely because of the mess with Meron.
@41: True. Doesn’t really help with the “better we all agree to torture this guy and never talk about it than all agree to lie and never talk about it” thing though.
@43: There was a lot of “as set up in the original Charter!” legal stuff going on in the later books IIRC. Which… yeah, I want to see what those guys are reading and how they’re interpreting it, given that it 100% for sure didn’t include dragons, Weyrs and tithing to support same just for starters.
“Which… yeah, I want to see what those guys are reading and how they’re interpreting it, given that it 100% for sure didn’t include dragons, Weyrs and tithing to support same just for starters.”
That’s really not too surprising. Consider the US Constitution, which isn’t even 250 years old yet. We deal with many things that people back then couldn’t even image. Now extrapolate to Pern, where the time interval between the Charter and the start of the first book is about 10 times as long. That much time brings great change, even without disasters that threaten to wipe out the whole human population and cause knowledge to be lost.
I would hope this isn’t spoilery, but the people who settled Pern would probably have been greatly shocked at the feudal society that evolved, with its hereditary lordships, rigid class system, and treatment of women. They had a low-tech libertarian paradise in mind, where everyone was free to claim a homestead and fend for themselves. They might have pulled off Galt’s Planet, except for that nasty Thread. The story arc is about people figuring out how to survive against harsh odds, and that’s why it has fans, desire the narrative inconsistencies, overly simplistic antagonists, and the sexist bits that don’t age well (and dragons are cool too!). In fact, given how women having equal rights is the exception rather than the rule in human history, I find the sexism in Pernese society understandable.
One more thing to point out, is that Kylara *was* considered to be properly far enough away from High Reaches when Wirenth rose, it’s actually specifically commented on by Pilgra to Brekke. It was just pure chance that Wirenth’s flight ended up going over Nabol and Pridith also happened to rise at that particular moment. Regardless as to whether or not Kylara screwed up by not realizing Pridith was that close to rising and her having sex with Meron was the final thing to trigger Pridith into rising herself, Kylara cannot reasonably be blamed for being at a location considered far enough away. How could anyone have predicted Wirenth’s flight would have taken the worst possible direction out of any?
Now, I *do* think Kylara screwed up by not realizing Pridith was so close to rising herself, but she was a considerable distance away from High Reaches, enough so that Pilgra comments that it was lucky Kylara was at Nabol at that moment, and not High Reaches. I still think, though, that it was just horrible chance that Wirenth ended up flying in *that* direction at that time, instead of any other.
Well I thought it was pretty clear that kylara intentionally set her dragon off at the same time as wirenth.. She had already discussed a similar plan with pridith involving Namenth earlier in the book but pridith didn’t want to contend with Ramoth.. Also she was pissed of that f’nor was with Brekke after already continually dismissing her own advances and in her vanity she did this stupid shit to get back at them I don’t really know what kinda of outcome she expected but obviously not this…Also the whole not knowing if your dragon is about to go into heat thing that was outlined in the beginning of the book WAS a huge stretch of the truth used as an excuse by the old timers to cast blame on the craft master instead of the green dragon Rider and also if that logic was to be believed it is purely only for greens because of the affects eating fire-stone has on them.. Also to address the comment made about “greens go into flight all the time why doesn’t that affect the Queen’s” because only bronze dragons fly Queen’s .
Blues and browns fly Greens .. There is no compitition if a green inspires a queen flight
@37 you can compare the two successions because the orderly succession via voting only happened because none of the contenders invoked the right to a trail by combat duel to determine the succession as there “right”
why not, because when the later example south lands had been open to new settlement. But at the time of the first two book No hold could be allowed to be contested people WOULD invoke because the were a lot of second borns (and later) with no prospect of becoming a (head) holder due lack of viable room for new holds in the north and most of the heirs were born before the pass when there was more leyway to take risk on a unproven new hold